Luke Tipple is joined by Emmy award-winning and longtime Shark Week filmmaker, Jeff Kurr to discuss his new documentary, Great White Open Ocean and the life threatening shark encounter captured in his film and seen in recent news.
Luke Tipple is joined by Emmy award-winning and longtime Shark Week filmmaker, Jeff Kurr. He discusses his successful and storied career, from being the first to capture a breaching Great White, to creating the Air Jaws series. Jeff discusses his latest project, directing Great White Open Ocean, a documentary about shark diver and Jeff’s good friend, Jimi Partington who experienced a life-threatening shark encounter in 2019, then a year later went on to swim with Great Whites again, and suffered a horrible stroke. Kurr captured Jimi’s journey and his road to recovery, which he says has been the most rewarding experience he’s ever had as a filmmaker. Luke and Jeff discuss life-threatening shark encounters including a recent encounter that resulted in the fatality of a tourist in Plettenberg Bay, South Africa on September 25th, 2022.
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[00:00:00] Luke: On today's podcast, we'll be joined by a Shark Week legend. He's a filmmaker who's made over 30 Shark Week documentaries. He's a mastermind behind Air Jaws and the 2022 documentary, Great White, Open Ocean, Jeff Kerr. Jeff will be discussing his beautiful documentary about his friend and shark diver Jimi Partington.
[00:00:21] Luke: Who had a near death experience with a great white On one of his shows, we'll talk shark encounters and what happens when they go bad. All that and more is coming up on this episode of Shark Week the Podcast.
[00:00:35] Luke: I'm Luke Tipple, marine biologist, and a frequent voice on my favorite things, oceans and sharks. And I'm stoked to bring the magic of Shark Week right to your ears. You know, sharks have been a big part of my life for over 20 years. They're a critical part of the ocean and a conduit to a better understanding life on our planet.
[00:00:54] Luke: So whether you've never seen Shark Week, Or you've been a diehard fan over the 30 plus years it's been around. This podcast is for you.
[00:01:08] Luke: On this episode, and this is a very special episode, I'm welcoming Shark Week Royalty. He's a filmmaker, Emmy nominee and Shark Week extraordinaire. He's the first person to ever shoot a great white shark, jump entirely out of the water, which was an iconic moment in TV history, and he can take a lot of credit for the birth and evolution of underwater filmmaking.
[00:01:29] Luke: So let's get to him. Jeff Kerr, Welcome to Shark Week, the podcast.
[00:01:33] Jeff Kurr: Hey, thanks, Luke. Great to be here.
[00:01:36] Luke: Well, good to have you back. I'm stoked to have a chat to you today cuz there's so much going on. But for anybody who is unfamiliar with your work, I mean, frankly, probably everybody listening to this podcast has seen your work, but they might not have, uh, met you before.
[00:01:50] Luke: Tell people who you are and what you do.
[00:01:52] Jeff Kurr: Well, I actually started, uh, in Shark Week way back in 1991, and boy, it was a different animal back then. Uh, we used to do about seven shows a year. And it was popular, but not like today. I mean, it's just grown leaps and bounds and sharks have become such a, a big part of our popular culture now, and a lot of that thanks to Shark Week.
[00:02:14] Jeff Kurr: Uh, I, I like to always say that they're, they've become the most popular. Wild animal in the world. And that's great for sharks because, you know, if you are thinking about sharks, you're shark fanatic. Uh, you want to protect sharks. And that's, that's important. That's ultimately what we want. We want people to love sharks.
[00:02:32] Jeff Kurr: And hopefully I've had a hand in that, you know, through the years. Um, Doing all the shows like Air Jaws of course, is probably the thing that I'm most known for. We've done about 14 or 15 of those and, uh, great whites sleeping out of the water, which we first discovered in, in false space South Africa in 2001.
[00:02:53] Jeff Kurr: And, uh, You know, I thought by this time after 14 episodes, people would've seen enough of, uh, breaching sharks. But we always find a different way to tell the story. Uh, obviously the, the technology has, uh, really improved through the years. The first Air Jaws I shot on standard definition, uh, with the camera on my shoulder.
[00:03:15] Jeff Kurr: It was cool. I mean, we had like 50 breaches I think in the show. Uh, nowadays we're shooting all the way up to eight K resolution, a super slow motion. It, it's just completely, uh, mind boggling how these breaches look. When you put a camera like that on 'em, it's, it's a really showcases the beauty and athleticism, uh, of these sharks.
[00:03:36] Jeff Kurr: So, yeah, I mean, it's just, I take it one year at a time and so far. I have 32 years, uh, in the books now with Shark Week, and it's still fun for me.
[00:03:45] Luke: Yeah. Well, it certainly has been quite a, a storied history you've had with Shark Week, but what got you into, like, what were you doing before Shark Week? Were you making films, documentaries?
[00:03:55] Luke: What was your evolution? Getting into sharks?
[00:03:57] Jeff Kurr: Yeah, I mean, everybody has a different path to get into. Shark Week, I was a TV news guy. Uh, I was a journalist, uh, worked for NBC News and ABC News affiliates and kind of, uh, sort of learned the television business and how to tell a story. And really a lot of the shows I do, I, I take.
[00:04:17] Jeff Kurr: Some of my background in news reporting to figure out really what the story is and what the important part, uh, of the story is. So, uh, background in news for about seven years and I just stumbled into Shark Week. I, I answered and added a newspaper. They were looking for an editor. And, uh, I went and interviewed for that and they said, Oh, it's this new show called Shark Week that's coming outta Shark Week.
[00:04:39] Jeff Kurr: I think I've heard of it. This was in 91, of course. And, uh, I edited the first show back in 1991. And, uh, just going through the footage, uh, I was amazed by sharks. I really didn't know a lot about sharks at the time. Eventually that led to me wanting to get in the water and diving and directing and being out in the field.
[00:04:59] Jeff Kurr: And it just sort of, uh, went from there, you know, one year at a time. Uh, I never thought it would go this long, but, you know, here we are.
[00:05:08] Luke: So when did it become kind of your, your mainstay? Like, is it fair to say sharks are most of your year right now?
[00:05:16] Jeff Kurr: Definitely all, it's all sharks now, but for the first 10 years, um, when Discovery used to only do about seven new shows a year, maybe I would do one show, sometimes two, but normally one.
[00:05:28] Jeff Kurr: And, uh, that takes to do one show. You know, you're out shooting for two or three weeks and you do the post production, and, and that takes a couple of months. So the rest of my year I would do reality shows. I used to work on a show called Extreme Makeover Home Edition. I was a director of photography. Uh, I did a show called Girls Next Door that was shot at the Playboy Mansion.
[00:05:49] Jeff Kurr: Uh, a lot of crazy stuff, but just learning the business and applying a lot of the techniques that I learned in doing reality tv. Into Shark Week and uh, sort of Shark Week is an interesting, um, sort of genre of television because, uh, there's a lot of different, you know, uh, sort of themes in these shows.
[00:06:12] Jeff Kurr: The show I did with Jimi this year, uh, great Wide Open Ocean is a true documentary in, in a sense. Other shows I've done have been more, uh, natural history. Some are like reality shows. So we try to give the audience a broad sort of, uh, spectrum of shows to, to keep it interesting. And you have to do that after, you know, over three decades
[00:06:34] Luke: of Shark Week.
[00:06:35] Luke: Yeah, I mean, with so many shows, so many creatives being involved and, you know, subject matters that. Can sometimes be, you know, revolutionary, but are often like, Okay, how do we show a new nuance in a same area? How do we make this interesting? So you do have to mix it up. You do have to bring in new ideas, new people, new filming concepts.
[00:06:56] Luke: Um, some things that some people might be like, Oh, what is this doing on Shark Week? Boo Boo Boo. I, I want true document. , but you, you need things to, you know, to entertain the masses. So you do have to mix things up a bit. Um, but I, I wanna jump, let's, let's jump right into great wide open ocean, because that was something that, um, was.
[00:07:18] Luke: To me distinctly different about your filmmaking, or at least the things that people typically know are Jeff Ke productions. You know, this was, you know, very true doc, but actually more to the sense of like, it was, you know, the story of, of Jimi. And, uh, it was, it felt deeply personal. So when I was watching it, I was like, Oh, okay, this, uh, this is something that Jeff really cares about.
[00:07:41] Luke: So tell us about the show for anybody who hasn't.
[00:07:45] Jeff Kurr: Yeah, well, uh, unlike a lot of Shark Week shows that are all about the sharks, and we always get told the sharks or the stars and feature the sharks, and I do that and I, it, it's all about having those amazing shots. But in this particular case, the story is really about Jimi and his passion for sharks.
[00:08:02] Jeff Kurr: The show be actually begins with him, uh, in this plastic cage box, uh, out in the ocean getting hit by a great white. Almost dying, but not a scratch on him amazingly. And then going on to, we had issues with Covid where he was locked down for a long time and he was dealing with a little bit of ptsd, wanted to get back in the water.
[00:08:29] Jeff Kurr: After that incident, we took him down to New Zealand and he had an amazing comeback dive with, with these sharks, uh, with great whites and actually did some snout touching and uh, some just beautiful scenes. And then low and behold, um, the next day as we were heading out to film, he has a stroke and we, we had it on camera actually, uh, which obviously just devastated us.
[00:08:56] Jeff Kurr: The whole crew. We, we were, um, in shock, but we rushed him to a hospital. He survived the stroke. Um, A year and a half later, he's still recovering, uh, from the stroke. It's a tough road back from a stroke, but his passion for sharks and wanting to get back in the water with sharks is really what's fueled his recovery.
[00:09:16] Jeff Kurr: So I like to say the sharks, that that almost killed him actually. Is what's kept him alive. You know, kept him, kept him going, um, you know, for a year and a half as he makes his comeback. So, yeah, it was a very personal, emotional story cuz I'm, I'm very good friends with Jimi and, you know, I, I rode in the helicopter with him to the hospital and, and we weren't even sure if he was gonna make it.
[00:09:39] Jeff Kurr: Hmm. Uh, it, it was extremely emotional and I, it, you know, the feedback I've got on this film. I usually don't look at the feedback, but I've had so many people reach out to me, stroke victims and, and people that have known stroke victims, uh, that were so inspired by Jimi's story recovering, uh, from the stroke, uh, his passion and his determination and, uh, just people tell me they ugly cried when they watched it.
[00:10:07] Jeff Kurr: uh, a lot of people cry when they watch it. It's a very, very emotional film, and a lot of times we don't have a chance to get into. The depth of storytelling. Like this was Shark Week. Uh, it, it usually you do an hour show that's about 42 minutes of content and it's flying. I mean, it's going and going. Yeah.
[00:10:23] Jeff Kurr: But discovery, they allowed me to have, um, because they saw the, you know, what we were filming, uh, they really got behind the project and allowed me to expand it to an hour and a half, which is a lot longer than we normally go and really get into Jimi's story, even going to his. , uh, on the island of Jersey in the UK and, and seeing him during his recovery, and that's what really got people.
[00:10:46] Jeff Kurr: Um, so it was a labor of love and I, and I did a lot of, it was done for Jimi. Um, more than anything. I want him to come back and, uh, get in the water with sharks again. And, and I want to be there when that, when that, so, um, yeah, it's, uh, for me, I'll never probably have. Of the opportunity to make a film like that again.
[00:11:09] Jeff Kurr: So, uh, I, I'm very, very proud of it, of that film, and it's, I'm certainly the best thing I've done. I. Well,
[00:11:16] Luke: as much as it inspired everyone else, I think that, you know, Jimi, seeing that I, I'm sure it must have been inspirational for him and his desire to get back in the water, which is, you know, gotta be number one for, for people like himself and us.
[00:11:28] Luke: Um, I wanna kind of, sort of break down that little journey that he had and you told him the story. Um, take us back to that, uh, you know, this glass box experiment, so if you, if you haven't seen it at home, this is Jimi. He. Floating in a perspec box on the top of the ocean with great white sharks swimming around him.
[00:11:48] Luke: And Jeff, you can take it from there.
[00:11:50] Jeff Kurr: Yeah. Uh, you know, this is, uh, a, a cage that we've used before, or I call it a cage, but basically it's, uh, all cages are a bluff when it comes to great white sharks. I've seen great whites tear apart aluminum cages. If they wanna get in, they're getting in. Uh, but. We designed a cage that we thought would be enough to deter the sharks.
[00:12:15] Jeff Kurr: Sharks. Normally when, as you know, when they bump into something that's, uh, rigid, they will turn away and we saw that again and again. That was happening. The sharks would bump it, Oh, this is something rigid I didn't expect, and they turn away. Well, this one particular shark didn't do that. Uh, she came in very fast, uh, and with open mouth.
[00:12:39] Jeff Kurr: Aimed right at Jimi and basically the, the, the box disintegrated and just standing there watching this, uh, I, my heart stopped. I mean, I, I really, I I've people said my face went white. There was really nothing you could do. You had to, It happened so fast that, you know, you had to rely on Jimi's expertise Yeah.
[00:13:03] Jeff Kurr: To get himself out of that situation. I mean, we all know when we work with shark, They're dangerous. They're, and people sometimes take 'em for granted and they forget that they're extremely dangerous. And this is a great white being a great white. Um, and you can never, ever forget their, their potential.
[00:13:21] Jeff Kurr: You know, for mayhem, their, this was a shark that was 16 feet long, probably, um, three or 4,000 pounds. Huge shark, but. It, it destroyed the box. Uh, and somehow Jimi avoided the Shark's mouth. I don't know how he did it. I looked at, I've looked at the replay a million times, but it seemed like part of the box sort of pushed him away from the shark's, jaws the shark.
[00:13:45] Jeff Kurr: Once it realized, I think, um, what it had hit it, it realized, Oh, this was a mistake. This is not what I meant. To hit, uh, Ralph, who was our scientist, uh, in the show, uh, who's studied a lot of shark attacks, and he's written papers on sharks that, uh, bumping and attacking inanimate objects thought. It might have been a displacement display where the shark was trying to push Jimi out of the area, didn't like Jimi around because it, it didn't continue the attack.
[00:14:16] Jeff Kurr: It basically just ran the box, destroyed the box, and left right away. And I, and I always like to point out to people that the shark didn't have a scratch on him, which is, you know, That's something we always keep in mind with, with these animals. We don't ever want to, you know, hurt them or abuse them in any way.
[00:14:32] Jeff Kurr: And, uh, I've never done that. And thankfully Jimi didn't have a scratch, uh, even, and, and it was touch and go definitely, because just watching him hanging onto that piece of floating box, kind of evaluating the situation, uh, he looked in the water, The shark luckily was on its way and made that long swim back to the boat.
[00:14:52] Jeff Kurr: And, uh, Thank God when he got up, we were all expecting to see blood, but he's like, I'm good. I'm fine. Yeah. , . So yeah, definitely hard stopping. Uh, I don't ever wanna see that again. Uh, on a shoot it was experiencing that one aged me a decade or, or so , but, uh, well, let's, thankfully, let's Jimi's a fish. So he, he survived it really
[00:15:14] Luke: well.
[00:15:15] Luke: Now in this particular one, you've got a plastic box that literally disintegrated as soon as, pretty much as soon as the shark hit it. What was going through your mind, just honestly, what's going through your mind as you look at this thinking? This was kind of my idea, right? As Jimi’s getting. Almost bitten and destroyed by the shark, you know, thankfully, Yes.
[00:15:37] Luke: The, the, the box pushed him up and away from it. Um, You must have been freaking out.
[00:15:43] Jeff Kurr: Yeah. Yeah. I, I definitely was, I, I had to sit down for a while, but, you know, I was trying to decide do I jump in? Because I was right on the edge of the boat. What, you know, what do I do? And then I, uh, I saw it was literally a couple of seconds and Jimi was already swimming back to the boat.
[00:15:59] Jeff Kurr: Sometimes you don't wanna use a metal cage. Um, you know, the sharks obviously, as you know, they have a sensory organs, uh, in their nose. The, the aula of lo zini, the aligned and and metal sometimes makes some act. You know, different than normal than you normally would. So we decided on this cage. Yeah. Um, all plastic, uh, to see how the sharks would react because it's interesting when sharks are an open ocean because there's not a seal colony for them to feed off of.
[00:16:30] Jeff Kurr: There's not a lot going on in the middle of the ocean. It's, it's basically, people have called it a desert. Uh, and so you wonder how are these animals gonna behave out there? When there's not a lot of food sources, they come across something, are they gonna be more aggressive than they normally would be?
[00:16:46] Jeff Kurr: Uh, like an oceanic white tip. I'm sure you've dove white tips and you know how they are. Sure. They live out in the middle of the ocean and they come across anything and they are on it. And they're ex not a big shark, but boy, they aggressive and they just keep coming and coming. And I, I've had some crazy experiences with oceanic white tips in, in open ocean, but so you wonder if the sharks the great white.
[00:17:08] Jeff Kurr: Change their behavior when they're out in open ocean, and that's kind of what we wanted to test. Uh, are they more aggressive? Do they act differently? And, um, I think they definitely do because when they come across anything that's in one of their long open ocean migrations, that's a possible food source, they're gonna check it out aggressively.
[00:17:26] Jeff Kurr: And they, that particular shark definitely, definitely did. So we learned a little bit, uh, I'm, I'm not gonna do that again for sure. And I , you know, thank God it was Jimi in that, because like I said, Jim, Jimi's. He never panicked. He, he was calm and he's great in the water with, with these animals. He's freed dove with great whites before.
[00:17:48] Jeff Kurr: Uh, I would never consider putting somebody out there that didn't have that kind of experience, at least a, a decade of experience. But again, that's the thing, you know, Luke is like, you know, we know the risk when we go out there and, uh, you know, you have to understand the risks of diving with these animals that never, ever forget what they could do, You know, in a, in a second.
[00:18:10] Luke: Uh, uh, when Jimi got back on deck, um, you know, we, we've seen the film, but how was he, you know, off camera when he came up? Was he, was he kind of like stoked and elated that it, it happened and still living off that adrenaline? Like, did it and when did it turn into, Oh, that was actually really real. Like, when did that sink in?
[00:18:29] Jeff Kurr: Yeah, it was, you know, it was a little bit of both. I mean, he was excited. His face was completely white like mine. We, all of our faces were or the blood drained out of our, our faces, but, Uh, he did say that, you know, I think I'm the first person that's ever been breached on and, and lived to tell the tail.
[00:18:46] Jeff Kurr: And he really probably, he really was breached on, um, and, and somehow luck skill. I don't know what it is, but he, he missed the shark, thank God. And, um, but yeah, he, uh, he was very pumped up. I'm sure the adrenaline was going. I think it really hit him though. Afterwards going back to the uk, going back to the island of Jersey where he lives and having a whole lot of time in lockdown to think about it and replay it in his head.
[00:19:13] Jeff Kurr: Sure. And we covered that in the film. You know, it's, uh, he wasn't able to get out. In the ocean again for a long time because of the lockdown. So when we took him back to New Zealand, that was his first time in a year of seeing a great white and, uh, boy, you know, when he first saw that first shark, his face just lit up and he was like, Get me in the water.
[00:19:34] Jeff Kurr: I, I couldn't wait.
[00:19:49] Jeff Kurr: It's one of those things that, you know, when you're in the field, you try to prepare for any eventuality. It normally, you're sure you're dealing with like, okay, if somebody gets bit, we have to be able to stop the bleeding. Uh, if somebody has hypothermia, we warm 'em up, but it, it's very difficult to prepare for a, for stroke.
[00:20:06] Jeff Kurr: How, you know, how do you. Even tell the signs. But luckily, I, I had not long before, I had just randomly read something about stroke symptoms. So when I saw him, uh, exhibiting some signs of stroke, just randomly standing on the back of the boat, I thought he might be having a stroke. But you never think that with a guy who's 39 didn't really have a family history of stroke.
[00:20:30] Jeff Kurr: Um, at first I thought it was diving related. I thought maybe he was having a. An embolism or something like that. But it had been the day before, and I, you know, I called, uh, there's an operation called Diver Dan, which has, uh, diving medicine doctors on call 24 7. And I was asking their opinions and they had no, I don't think so.
[00:20:51] Jeff Kurr: We very shallow dives, very mellow, uh, dives. They did less than 20 feet. And, um, so yeah, I mean, I think it's still kind of a mystery. We know that something lodged, something in his neck, uh, had come loose and lodged in his brain. And, um, it was extremely, you know, a delicate, serious situation. But thankfully, uh, in Christchurch, New Zealand where we took him, we flew him there by helicopter.
[00:21:20] Jeff Kurr: They have one of the top stroke units in the entire world. I mean, a, a brand new amazing hospital. And, uh, you know, they. Did some amazing treatments to keep him, keep him alive because there, I think it was really touch and go Strokes are, are no joke, but thankfully we, you know, I happened to catch the signs right away and that we immediately radio trail helicopter.
[00:21:44] Luke: Are you staying in touch with Jimi? Do you have an idea about his, you know, current status, how he is healing up?
[00:21:49] Jeff Kurr: Yeah, I talked to Jimi all the time. Uh, I talked to his sister and, and the rest of his family and, uh, I'm doing everything I can to, uh, you know, Support him and help him in his comeback. Um, you know, eventually we want to take him back out in the water and get, and get him back in the water with sharks when he's ready in, in due time.
[00:22:09] Jeff Kurr: Um, I don't know about deep diving, but he, we definitely wanna get him in the water and, uh, someday I think we'll do a follow up to great wide open ocean. You know, I think that's Jimi's ultimate goal to keep working with sharks in, in some capacity. And, But he's doing great. Yeah, his attitude's great.
[00:22:25] Jeff Kurr: He's always smiling. He's always laughing. And it was great to visit him on, uh, the island of Jersey and, and meet his family. And, uh, so I, I have a lot of hope for Jimi. He's gonna be fine. I think it's this gonna take a while. Uh,
[00:22:39] Luke: it's awesome. I, I've, uh, I think I've already chatted to him once on this podcast and, uh, of course I've seen the shows that he's been on and he actually, he works on the boat that I started out my great white career on, on the island
[00:22:51] Luke: Um, so, you know, I've, I've kept tabs on what he does and from what I've seen is, Has this infectious enthusiasm about him and just a absolute passion and love for sharks. You know, if, if there's anybody that can come back from something like that Yeah. And get back into what he loves, it's absolutely Jimi and, uh, Jimi, if you're listening, mate, which I'm sure you are, um, you know, would love to have you on this show, but more importantly, we wanna see you back on, on the water.
[00:23:13] Luke: So, Yeah. People
[00:23:14] Jeff Kurr: love, people love him. They, uh, I. So many people, uh, have contacted me and say, I just love Jimi. And, and, uh, all the people he's taken out on dive trips to Guadalupe. Uh, he's got a lot of fans. I've, I've never heard anyone say a bad word about, about Jimi. He's just. A really lovable
[00:23:34] Luke: guy. Yeah.
[00:23:36] Luke: Well that's killer. Well, hopefully it does turn into another, uh, film for you, cuz I'm sure everyone would love a follow up to that one. Hopefully lots of, uh, Jimi in the water with great whites. Mm-hmm. and, uh, learning new things about him, which would be really cool. Um, I want to. Dive into a little more about, you know, your history of filming.
[00:23:52] Luke: You know, this just came up yesterday. So this is kind of like fresh news, and I know that you have some history in the area, but you've heard about this, uh, shark bite in Burg Bay, right? Right. Um, what is your take on that for, for people who. Don't know about it. There's a, a young lady, she was, uh, bitten and uh, killed by a great white in an area where sharks aren't really that well known, at least historically.
[00:24:18] Luke: You know, there aren't that many great whites around until fairly recent years, but you've had some history making films out there.
[00:24:24] Jeff Kurr: Yeah, Berg Bay is a really unique place and we actually filmed there back in 2019. We did an Air Jaws episode there, and the reason that we even went there was because obviously everyone's heard about the situation with the orca that have come into places to where we traditionally filmed great whites like False Bay, and they've.
[00:24:44] Jeff Kurr: Wiped out the great whites Uhlenberg emerged as a place for a last stand, so to speak, for the great white shark in South Africa. And it, it's an amazing place because it has these very high cliffs, uh, 300 feet high cliffs that you could look down on the edge of the cliff and see great white, great white sharks interacting with seals.
[00:25:06] Jeff Kurr: Uh, but also there's a surf break right there near the cliff and we had great whites coming. From the seal colony into the surf area constantly back and forth, back and forth. And there was a viral video that came out, uh, not long after we were there. A shot by a drone of a huge great white going right under all these surfers.
[00:25:27] Jeff Kurr: And I, I was thinking at the time, you know, it's, it's, it's just a matter of time before an accident happens because these guys are surfing. The break is right there where the sharks come in. And, uh, low and behold, last June, There was a fatal attack at Burg. Uh, it's a very popular bathing beach. A lot of the Cape Townians go there.
[00:25:48] Jeff Kurr: Uh, they have weekend places. It's a beautiful, beautiful stretch of ocean. But a gentleman, I think it was a gentleman that was killed there in June, and then just a couple days, I guess last weekend, uh, a woman was killed, uh, by a white shark there. So, What does that tell us? Uh, a few years ago, there weren't a lot of sharks at Berg.
[00:26:07] Jeff Kurr: It wasn't known for great white sharks and. My thinking is that a lot of the great whites escaping the orcas, uh, from Hans Bay and Falls Bay and other locations have moved into Burg. And so now all of a sudden Burg is uh, a white shark hotspot and.
[00:26:25] Luke: Or what, what's attracting them to Berg? Well, there is a
[00:26:28] Jeff Kurr: seal colony there.
[00:26:30] Jeff Kurr: Yeah, definitely. Okay. Yeah,
[00:26:31] Luke: it's uh, Is that, is that just, is it the next logical large seal colony that they're encountering now that they're being pushed out by the orca? Or is it something particular topographically about it that makes it good hunting grounds, perhaps? Yeah,
[00:26:43] Jeff Kurr: I mean, I think it is partially.
[00:26:47] Jeff Kurr: Like the next stop. Because if you look at False Bay, that's the westernmost trying to picture the South African coast. And then you go to Hans Bay, which is a little bit, you know, east of, of false bay, but it's almost like the sharks are being pushed down the coast, uh, and end up at Burg, which is a a, a great spot.
[00:27:06] Jeff Kurr: If you're a great white shark because you know, the waters are calm. It's, it's, uh, there's a million seals there, but I think now it's changed a bit and, you know, the ocean's changing in crazy ways right now with, with a lot of the, Yeah, the global warming issues. But I think that's also part of it too. Uh, the bigger sharks are coming into Burg Bay.
[00:27:28] Jeff Kurr: When a person gets attacked by a white shark, it's usually not these little juveniles. Um, it's usually a larger shark. Uh, and my experience has been it's, it's sharks that are beyond the juvenile stage into the sub adult stage. Uh, these are the w white sharks that are most dangerous to humans. And, um, yeah, so tragically, uh, two fatal attacks there in just a few months.
[00:27:53] Jeff Kurr: And, you know, it's funny, I was thinking about this, this attack that they've had there, and. Right now, Luke, if you were here with me in California, we could grab a couple paddle boards and head out to any number of beaches and we'd be surrounded by white sharks. This is shark Tober of California. There's sharks everywhere, but we just don't get the attacks here.
[00:28:12] Jeff Kurr: I'm not sure why. It's an interesting question. You know, for researchers, there's all these white sharks off the California coast and the attacks are, are so rare, especially south of point conception, but. Um, it, it's interesting in different places the way the Sharks act, uh, you know, they're different in every location.
[00:28:31] Jeff Kurr: New Zealand sharks are different than than South African white Sharks, and they're different than California white sharks. So it's an interesting question, and I'm not sure what causes these attacks, you know, in
[00:28:42] Luke: these situations. So, I mean, one negative encounter with them can be a life changing event.
[00:28:47] Luke: But I mean, thankfully I haven't seen that many reports of people going out intentionally trying to get footage with a great white or something, and coming off the worst of the wear. Most of the time they're gonna splash too much. They're gonna create all this chaos. The shark's gonna go, Well, well, what are you?
[00:29:02] Luke: Doing near me, Get away from me on nothing to do with you. And they're gonna disappear. And what we end up with is kind of a cool shot on a GoPro as the shark disappears, you know, it might bump the board and disappear, but you know, then we get the ones where, you know, the shark has stalked up and has targeted a person as a potential food source or investigate in, you know, something to investigate.
[00:29:26] Luke: We saw, uh, the, the young girl in Florida, um, in, it was July 4th, she lost her leg. Um, she wasn't out there trying to harass sharks at all. It was, she was just out there scalloping and, and got bitten. And, and that's a massive life changing event. You know, I think I, I want people to look at things like that and thankfully she's recovering and she's doing great.
[00:29:46] Luke: Um, but look at that and think you. Do I really wanna be on the receiving end of that? Is that worth that shot? And you know, these, these scars can be for the lifetime if you happen to live through it. It, it's. It's a dangerous thing for people to go out and, and assume that they can be fine with predators just because they happen to be in the water and just because they abne see 'em on tv, they're way more dangerous than a lot of animals.
[00:30:08] Luke: People would not go anywhere near on any normal day
[00:30:11] Jeff Kurr: of their life. Well, yeah. You know, and it's, it's always the shark that you don't see as, you know, in, in all these attacks. Like, uh, what happens in Florida? Most of the accounts I've read, the person never saw the shark and they usually, they can't identify.
[00:30:25] Jeff Kurr: Yeah. I have no idea what species it was. I just, all of a sudden I felt my leg being, uh, tugged on. And you know, that's the thing. So, One thing I guess you can look at as a positive, if you see the shark and it sees you and you guys have this eye contact going on, far less likely that the shark's gonna bite you.
[00:30:44] Jeff Kurr: It's it's people in situations that are, you know, especially in Florida with the black tips and a lot of bity sharks, so to speak. If you're waiting in murky water and you don't see a shark, the sharks definitely knows you're there. That's when these, a lot of these bites seem to happen, but yeah. Um, you know, at least with the white sharks, if you see one and you're on a paddle board and it sees you, there's usually an understanding.
[00:31:09] Jeff Kurr: Okay, I'm an ambush predator. I can't ambush you. The jig is up. I'm gonna check you out, circle a little bit, and I'll be on my way. It's always that shark that you don't see, like with any predator that uses these ambush techniques. So, you know, that's one thing to think about when you think about all these attacks.
[00:31:26] Jeff Kurr: Um, there's a lot of commonality there, uh, in terms of I never saw it coming. And that's, that's when you're in trouble. Yeah.
[00:31:34] Luke: Yeah. Yeah. If we are, you know, it's a blessing, a curse, knowing what's out there. You know, the, the higher visibility we get with drones in the air is, I think, actually one of the, the better things because, you know, lifeguards get that tool to be able to say, Hey, there's a shark out there.
[00:31:47] Luke: Don't go out there right now. Mm-hmm. , I think that's fantastic, but I ironically, That shark wouldn't have been an issue most of the time. Right. Usually it's when they wouldn't have been able to see it with a drone or anything else cause it's murky water or, you know, high surf zone or, or it's people walking into an area that they shouldn't.
[00:32:07] Luke: So perhaps let's just give people some inspiration from your perspective with like, what's the, the, your favorite experience you've had. to do with sharks in all these years of making Shark Week? Like what's the thing that stands out that you'll think, Yeah, that was, that was worth my career.
[00:32:28] Jeff Kurr: Um, you know, definitely capturing the breaching great whites, uh, in South Africa and being one of the first to do that I think is definitely the highlight of my career because just that behavior.
[00:32:40] Jeff Kurr: It, it was known, but it was considered extremely rare and, uh, random thing. And we were able to find a spot, uh, in South Africa and false Bay where you could get breaching sharks almost on demand. It was, uh, an unbelievable experience that changed my life and. Just the fact that so many people had never seen this before and it made such a huge splash in Shark Week.
[00:33:06] Jeff Kurr: You know, here we are, 14 or 15 films later, still doing these Air Joss programs. I, I think if I was a young person that was really wanted to have a career with sharks, I would consider going to a place like South Africa. Going to work with, like, say, marine dynamics, uh, as a company in Hans Bay where they offer internships and chances for people to work with, you know, hands on with sharks.
[00:33:29] Jeff Kurr: Not only sharks but penguins. Uh, they're very conservation minded. So it's like finding your niche in the shark world, whatever that might be, whether it's filmmaking or, you know, conservation or. Whatever that science, you know, there's, there's a lot of different ways you can go to work with these animals.
[00:33:46] Jeff Kurr: I always loved animals. I grew up watching gusto. Um, I said, Someday I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna work with animals. Maybe I'll even film them. Who knows? It all kind of got put on hold as I went through college. I, how am I gonna do this? And then it, it just, one day I answered an that in a newspaper. For a Shark Week film and it just all, you know, it was luck.
[00:34:09] Jeff Kurr: It, it just all went from that, that point. So, you know, if you really want to do something and you really wanna work with sharks, there are avenues to do it. You just have to be committed to it and, and take, take a chance. Roll the dice. Uh, yeah, like we all did. We all rolled the dice and let's get into sharks and it's been great.
[00:34:27] Jeff Kurr: And, and hopefully I've been able to co. Uh, something meaningful, uh, in the shark world where people will look back and say, Wow, that was some pretty amazing stuff that got me inspired, that made me want to become a scientist that made me wanna become a filmmaker. And I, I hear a lot of that from, from younger, uh, the younger scientists.
[00:34:46] Jeff Kurr: So,
[00:34:48] Luke: Yes, I think you should. I mean, you, you talk about your, you know, inspiration of gusto. Um, you know, in many ways the, the media you've created has the same effect on a, on a younger generation. You should be very proud of that. I, I remember growing up watching J Gusto and thinking, I wanna be on a boat with.
[00:35:06] Luke: My best friends going out and discovering sharks and shipwrecks and doing all that amazing stuff. I remember thinking that at five years old. Yeah, me too. And you know, different turns of my life happened throughout, you know, I didn't hang onto that. It wasn't like my driving force from five years old, but it's something that always stuck with me.
[00:35:23] Luke: And throughout the years, you know, I applied to marine biology school. I didn't go right away. I went into business. Right. But then I, I came back to it cause I'm like, this is, this is my. And, and eventually I found myself there with my friends on a boat in the middle of the ocean playing with sharks and discovering shipwrecks and stuff.
[00:35:40] Luke: You know, literally doing exactly what I remember at five, you know, dreaming about. And I think you, with your films, , you're giving people that opportunity for that inspiration as well. And I don't think people see how hard it is. They, they see the end result and they see this amazing stuff, but still that is the inspiration that will, will kick them down the path towards hopefully contributing to helping save this amazing species.
[00:36:04] Luke: So you should be very proud of that. Is there, um, is there anything you're working on right now that you can share with us or is that all under
[00:36:11] Jeff Kurr: wraps? Uh, you know, uh, So I'm getting older now, , and it takes a lot of, you know, it takes a lot of energy to do these films. So, um, I'm not saying that I'm gonna hang it up anytime soon, but when I feel like I've, I'm ready to pass the torch on to some of these, uh, young guys that I've developed and I've seen them develop their theirs filmmaking.
[00:36:37] Jeff Kurr: Storytelling skills, then I'll probably say, Okay guys, you know, take over. I've got other things I want to accomplish in life. But, uh, so I, but that said, uh, I am looking at one or two more projects to do, uh, before I call it a career. Um, You heard it here first? No, I'm joking. I, I, but I, I love what I do and it's gonna be hard to give it up.
[00:36:59] Jeff Kurr: My wife won't let me, cuz she loves going out in location and, uh, with me, she's like, We gotta go out there again. So, but. You know, so
[00:37:06] Luke: you're gonna remain a filmmaker as long as your wife gets to have a vacation. Is that what I'm saying? That's right. You know how it goes. No, that's as good a reason. That's
[00:37:16] Jeff Kurr: But yeah, I'm, I'm hopeful to do another year of Shark Week. That would be 33. That's a nice round number. So, you know, we'll see how it goes.
[00:37:24] Luke: Sounds good. Well, I'll give you, uh, before we sign off here, I'll give you an opportunity to send a message out to Jimmy, cause I'm sure he is listening. Um, what do you wanna say,
[00:37:31] Jeff Kurr: Jimmy?
[00:37:31] Jeff Kurr: I love your brother. Uh, uh, Keep fighting. Uh, You know, I'm so proud of what you did in that film and, uh, so happy for you that you're on your way back and, and we're gonna get out and see some sharks soon.
[00:37:47] Luke: Good on you. Well, thanks so much, Chef. I really appreciate your time today. Thanks, Luke. It was a pleasure.
[00:37:52] Luke: Good on you mate.
[00:37:58] Luke: You know, you really couldn't ask to have a guy with more experience on the show than Jeff Kerr. I mean, the guy is absolutely legend and the fact that he was the one to be able to be there for Jimi throughout the experience that he's had, um, I, I think is. Somewhat prophetic. I mean, it, it's amazing to see that, uh, his genuine care and compassion for his friend in taking him through what has been a, a very traumatic experience.
[00:38:23] Luke: I is very present and that film, if you haven't seen it, is really worth checking out. You can get it on Discovery Plus, uh, search for it and, uh, and, and watch it. It's, it's really beautifully made. And Jimi, I know you're probably out there listening to this, um, the. Shark Week and Discovery family are pollen for you, mate.
[00:38:40] Luke: Um, we really wanna see you back out and strong. We wanna see you in the water. We wanna see you with sharks, but overall we just wanna see you healthy. Now, another important topic that Jeff brought up is, is the desire to go out and work and film with sharks. And there's something I think that we should touch on because there are a lot of risks that we take in making these films.
[00:39:02] Luke: You know, Jimi's one example of it. Um, we don't take it lightly. None of the people on Shark Week take what we are doing with Shark. Lightly. I mean, we might joke around about it. Absolutely we do. You know, that's part of the fun of making it, you know, there's definitely a camaraderie in sharing the danger of getting into the water with these sharks.
[00:39:24] Luke: And yes, you might see some people be a little flippant about it, but that's also kind of our defense mechanism. For how we deal with it. You know, I remember when I first started out with working with sharks, people used to ask me about, you know, what my mother would think, or or, you know, Aren't you scared all the time?
[00:39:42] Luke: And frankly, no, I, I wasn't worried what my mom would think and I wasn't. Scared, but I was very, very cognizant of the danger. And that's, that's the difference. Like somebody who's actually going out and doing this professionally, they're aware of what they're doing. They have a very strong understanding of the implications of what we're getting ourselves into, and that allows us to be okay.
[00:40:08] Luke: And to go forward knowing that just like you know, Skydives or Wingsuit flyers or anybody in any type of sort of extreme scenario or circumstance, they're gonna tell you most of the time that there isn't that much adrenaline. That it's just something that they've, that they're now comfortable with and that there's actually kind of a piece that comes over you when you encounter these animals or when you do this extraordinary thing that people watch you and think, Oh, they're crazy and there really is.
[00:40:35] Luke: And, but that piece is addictive. It's something that we have to have. It's something that we have to have to pursue. And in the case of sharks, it's something. We have a deep passion for not only for our own experience with this magnificent animal, but also what we're trying to discover about it. Because we feel this ticking clock of these animals that are being vaporized from the face of the planet at a rate that's completely unsustainable.
[00:41:00] Luke: And the vast majority of people out there working with sharks are not working with sharks because they wanna be famous, they're working with sharks. Cause we wanna bring awareness and understanding to this animal so that we can enjoy. For all of our lifetimes and our kids' lifetimes, but not even just for that like so that we can keep the oceans healthy and really the ocean is what brought us all into.
[00:41:27] Luke: And that's it for today's episode. Stay tuned to this feed. As we continue to cover the Sharkies current topics, we'll talk to top scientists and experts and learn about the latest conservation efforts to keep this amazing animal from extinction. Thank you so much for listening to Shark Week the podcast.
[00:41:41] Luke: Be sure to rate us five stars and subscribe for more shark fun facts. Until next time, I'm Luke Tipple. I'll chat to you soon.